[civsoc-mw] Women demo on equality.
trevor chimimba
trevorchimimba at gmail.com
Mon Oct 12 14:19:18 CAT 2020
KPD,
The process is as secretive as ever. Some even know that they are on the board at the same time we all hear on the radio. At least we know that the Vatican it electing a pope.
What the constitution provides are human rights and fundamental freedoms. In any discussion about rights it is the beginning, unless one takes the position that women’s rights are not human rights (Beijing 25 years ago dispellled that myth). We do not even need a constitution to tell us that we are equal and we ought to be treated equally.
There is also the Gender Equality Act in place (I am not a great fan of it (it reads like a policy document) but it is there.
I can understand when people want specifics, but I do not see that as the point of these debates. We all chip in the little we know (with our limited time and resources) hoping that it will contribute to the debate (and it wil taken in good faith).
> On Oct 12, 2020, at 6:52 AM, KPD <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> TC,
>
> I won't deny any of what you have said.
>
> My point is, if at the beginning someone gave us the breakdown of the process, our debate would have had direction.
>
> We would have known where there problem is. What I seem not to be comfortable with are just generalisations. Oh! It's the law. Where is the law? It's in the constitution, which section?.
>
>
> I am happy with the process CWG has narrated. We can not have boards where a person has no clue like some of our parliamentarians.
>
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 12:36 trevor chimimba, <trevorchimimba at gmail.com> wrote:
>> KPD,
>>
>> You should not assume that a posting or part thereof was not read or parts were missed or misunderstood. That is a bad debating style, aimed at putting another down to score cheap points.
>>
>> It is clear from Charles’ posting that gender considerations are not part of the requirements when these “scouts” are looking for board members.
>>
>> We have seen differences elsewhere when such is a requirement. You cannot have an interview panel without looking at gender representation (on the panel and among those interviewed).
>>
>> Even when these are required, we encounter resistance, cynical and otherwise (leaving out the good ones and padding up the numbers with lesser qualifications knowing that they will be dropped further down stream).
>>
>> All these things are happening in the work place. We know.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:09 AM, KPD <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> DM,
>>>
>>> Maybe you missed Charles Golomoti's post.
>>>
>>> From what he posted, people in various spheres are taxed with submitting 6 names to be considered in the boards.
>>>
>>> If we have a Council for Lawyers, the council is contacted to submit 6 names that will be considered for a board that deals with law.
>>>
>>> If it is ESCOM the board will include Engineers. CWG struggled to find a single woman. They eventually found 2. One was already a PS who is an ex-official and the other had a weak CV.
>>>
>>> They included the woman, for the sake of being a woman. She didn't meet the requirements and they ended up with a board of 6 men.
>>>
>>> You, Judge Mwaungulu, can easily get this information which CWG provided. It is frustrating me we debate without any facts and in the end we go in around circles.
>>>
>>> It is only CWG who gave pertinent information. The rest of us contribute as if we are all based in another planet. Surely, there should be a netter can can get information appropriate sources how the process works and share.
>>>
>>> I appreciate CWG's contribution because it contained ver useful information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 11:32 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> THE UNIVERSITY OF MALAWI HAS BEEN GRADUATING 7.5 WOMEN GRADUATES? YOU ARE KIDDING ME?
>>>>
>>>> No, Keyboard. The duty is on the appointer and the recruiter simple. Nobody applied for these jobs. Nobody presented their CVs.
>>>>
>>>> The same exertion that went to find the board members should have been applied for compliance with the Constitution and the Act. It is not a requirement to the Act or Constitition that people present CVs.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are being unfair to say that for the past 40 years the University of Malawi has produced less than 300 women. Women who can occupy these boards. Where are you looking. Your contention is that for the past 40 years the UNIMA has had 7.5 women graduates per annum? You are kidding me?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 08:30 Keyboard Boyd Kilembey, <kkilembe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Judge I think legislation aside, we should also look critically at availability of human resources gender wise. I do not think women should go into boards solely because they are women. Are there women qualified enough to deliver in the boards? If they are there then we should compile their cvs and give them to the nepotistic pastor. Which women would you recommend to Escom, poisons board, water boards, construction council tax. I don't think it is right to appoint Maria from bwandilo into the poisons board because she is a woman. This will breed malfeasance. This 50/50 should be considered as a process that we aim to achieve in the next 50 years than as a project that has a simple cut off date. Meanwhile we need to focus on underlying processes that will enable society achieve that goal. One brilliant idea I got from the net is abolishing these girls or boys secondary schools.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 07:08 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Please just read the Constitution and the two Acts on the matter. The law places no duty on the one whose right is violated; it places the duty on a) the one appointing and b) recruiting to follow the Act. It puts no duty on the appointee or recruit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The law creates a right for the appointee and recruit. The right of either gender to a minimum of 40%, leaving the appointee to deal with gender issues differently but not without derogation from the right with the 20%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The correct formulation is F/M/FM
>>>>>> 40/40/20. So that if there is a chance for 50/50 and the appointer and the recruiter, would be wrong to resort to 40/40/20. Where, therefore, there are all women left, after the 40/40, the recruiter or appointee must get the 20% from the female. Tge same applies to when male constitute the last 20%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THIS IS BRILLIANT LEGISLATION
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 02:20 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Inu a Judge,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are always people who get wronged and never open cases in court for various reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The appointment of people took a long time and NGOs even complained. Any woman who was interested could have approached any of the 9 Tonse Alliance parties. They could have approached the 13 presidential advisors. Could have approached any of the NGOs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No one can complain that you never considered their case if it didn't come to court. You even meet people who lose their jobs, houses etc in the street or in church. You can't give them judgement until their case is in court.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are making too many assumptions on this matter. Most prominent women have secure jobs which preclude them from taking other responsibilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 23:35 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think we are having to blame everything to avoid simple steps we have to take. Thee are women there to fill 65 boards. 50%! Something just got very wrong! It cannot be that the University of Malwi has produced less than 300 women graduates in the past 10 years! You are kidding me?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 20:29 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A different perspective.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Botswana has always had co-education. Whether boarding or day schools. No seperate boys and girls schools.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Women hold very high positions as PSs, Directors, principals and deputy principals of tertiary institutions. They own big companies and businesses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the 80s women were already admitted to any programme at tertiary institutions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Co-education at all levels without exception was normal. It was weird to Nyasa people who grew up knowing girls and boys could not go to same boarding secondary schools.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know if there was a boarding secondary school in Malawi where cooks were women. It has always been normal in Botswana with women cooks, chefs, taxi and combi drivers, drivers of huge 100 ton mine trucks etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The point is, our system creates gender inequality right from young age. Combine that with decades of women being told what to wear and not wear.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know of any African country where women dancing for president was institutionalised like Malawi. Yes we popularised osunga mwambo and it is the very same phrase which is propagating inequality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The best way as it were is to start with both boy and girl child. Let them grow up together so that they can learn from early age how to treat each other with respect.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tisamaone azimai ngati mitchini yopanga ana.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 14:29 Keyboard Boyd Kilembey, <kkilembe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I have the same experience. A grace chavula. She was very bright. She went to Lilongwe Girls. I went to Mitundu night. Next I hear she was at Poly doing secretarial studies while I went to chanco doing general degree ya mabwana. I still think she should have been a PS or vice chancellor of Unima. Some study indeed needs to be undertaken
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 11:16 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> As much as I support the concept of equality and protection of women empowerment, the only Act of parliament I have seen is on GBV. On boards it is only Environment management Board that there is a stipulation on board composition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I want to create CIVSOC forum board, can women here raise their hand so that I I include them. If the board comprise KBK,TC, LN, SK, LN, CWG, some women somewhere will demonstrate.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zinthu za maquota maybe politically correct but it is up to us as individuals to stand up and be counted. Not because of our noise but our worth.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Inu azimai, don't normalise kumamenyedwa mapama. Don't normalise kumaumilizidwa kukhala house wife.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alice Namathanga, I don't know where she is, competed with me for position 1 in standard 7 at C.I in Blantyre. Next time ndinamva kuti ku secondary school sanapite or she got married. I felt like crying. Why do our girls drop by the way side?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We need some sort of conference, commission of inquiry or whatever to look and hardships faced by women from girl child to adult. This will allow for appropriate intervention.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Osangoti tizingopanga phokoso without dealing with the underlying issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>
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