[civsoc-mw] Women demo on equality.
Keyboard Boyd Kilembey
kkilembe at gmail.com
Mon Oct 12 22:50:59 CAT 2020
When are you resigning to give way to women court clerks to be appointed to
the supreme court?
On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 20:19 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Why sue? The men should resign and give the President the free hand to
> comply. As simple as that
>
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 19:07 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> DM
>>
>> Then the women can use the Gender Equality Act to sue.
>>
>>
>> But read Section 11 subsection a, b and c. You will realise what I am
>> saying obtains.
>>
>> If any woman feels was qualified for any of the boards, she can take the
>> appointing authority to court and Judge Mwaungulu can direct that that
>> woman be appointed not withstanding 11 (a) to (c). Tell them the right is
>> not absolute.
>>
>> To expect the appointing authority to go searching to fulfil an act is to
>> make a mockery of the duty bearer. Ngakhale ndiri ine I would tell you to
>> go and look for the women yourself.
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 19:52 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <
>> dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> your argument is non sequitur. My premise is that there are women out
>>> there who qualify. it was the President's duty to find them knowing that he
>>> had to comply with the Act. .
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:30 PM KPD <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So in your considered opinion anyone in a dress should fill up the
>>>> stupid quota, if I may call it that.
>>>>
>>>> As for specifics, I want to benefit, not from the noise, but facts. I
>>>> have not seen Gender Equality Act that Trevor mentioned. You also mentioned
>>>> Gender Act which doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> We have Gender Based Violence Act and I don't think it talks about
>>>> board appointments.
>>>>
>>>> TC, to some extent, is saying we should continue misleading each
>>>> because we have no time for facts. My take is that there people on this
>>>> very net who have facts at their fingertips.
>>>>
>>>> I want to be able to debate on point of knowledge than ignorance. So
>>>> Judge Mwaungulu, if you believe so much that everything in the constitution
>>>> should be implemented by the book then I can several for that were never
>>>> implemented and you kept. It took Joyce Banda to revive Council elections
>>>> which were ignored for long time. And you were there as part of those
>>>> raping parts of the constitution.
>>>>
>>>> We all want to see women in boards but I can assure you that
>>>> I am one person who will insist that those women should meet MINIMUM
>>>> requirements. I will never compromise, as a duty bearer, to just fill up
>>>> the numbers because a certain piece of paper says so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 16:24 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <
>>>> dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My friend, you have added nothing to the wider question. Read the
>>>>> Gender Act. There is no duty laid on a citizen. The duty is on the
>>>>> appointing or recruiting authority to comply with the Act.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are the facts? On your own admission, the President went
>>>>> 23/77. Did he comply with the law? No. He broke the law.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is all we have now. No amount of palliation removes these brute
>>>>> facts. Do you know different facts - relevant facts?
>>>>>
>>>>> None.
>>>>>
>>>>> So let the President obey the law. The president is not bound by your
>>>>> opinion. He is bound by the law.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 10:09 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> DM,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you missed Charles Golomoti's post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From what he posted, people in various spheres are taxed with
>>>>>> submitting 6 names to be considered in the boards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we have a Council for Lawyers, the council is contacted to submit
>>>>>> 6 names that will be considered for a board that deals with law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it is ESCOM the board will include Engineers. CWG struggled to
>>>>>> find a single woman. They eventually found 2. One was already a PS who is
>>>>>> an ex-official and the other had a weak CV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They included the woman, for the sake of being a woman. She didn't
>>>>>> meet the requirements and they ended up with a board of 6 men.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You, Judge Mwaungulu, can easily get this information which CWG
>>>>>> provided. It is frustrating me we debate without any facts and in the end
>>>>>> we go in around circles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is only CWG who gave pertinent information. The rest of us
>>>>>> contribute as if we are all based in another planet. Surely, there should
>>>>>> be a netter can can get information appropriate sources how the
>>>>>> process works and share.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate CWG's contribution because it contained ver useful
>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 11:32 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <
>>>>>> dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> THE UNIVERSITY OF MALAWI HAS BEEN GRADUATING 7.5 WOMEN GRADUATES?
>>>>>>> YOU ARE KIDDING ME?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, Keyboard. The duty is on the appointer and the recruiter simple.
>>>>>>> Nobody applied for these jobs. Nobody presented their CVs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same exertion that went to find the board members should have
>>>>>>> been applied for compliance with the Constitution and the Act. It is not a
>>>>>>> requirement to the Act or Constitition that people present CVs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you are being unfair to say that for the past 40 years the
>>>>>>> University of Malawi has produced less than 300 women. Women who can occupy
>>>>>>> these boards. Where are you looking. Your contention is that for the past
>>>>>>> 40 years the UNIMA has had 7.5 women graduates per annum? You are kidding
>>>>>>> me?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 08:30 Keyboard Boyd Kilembey, <
>>>>>>> kkilembe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Judge I think legislation aside, we should also look critically at
>>>>>>>> availability of human resources gender wise. I do not think women should go
>>>>>>>> into boards solely because they are women. Are there women qualified enough
>>>>>>>> to deliver in the boards? If they are there then we should compile their
>>>>>>>> cvs and give them to the nepotistic pastor. Which women would you recommend
>>>>>>>> to Escom, poisons board, water boards, construction council tax. I don't
>>>>>>>> think it is right to appoint Maria from bwandilo into the poisons board
>>>>>>>> because she is a woman. This will breed malfeasance. This 50/50 should be
>>>>>>>> considered as a process that we aim to achieve in the next 50 years than as
>>>>>>>> a project that has a simple cut off date. Meanwhile we need to focus on
>>>>>>>> underlying processes that will enable society achieve that goal. One
>>>>>>>> brilliant idea I got from the net is abolishing these girls or boys
>>>>>>>> secondary schools.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 07:08 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <
>>>>>>>> dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please just read the Constitution and the two Acts on the matter.
>>>>>>>>> The law places no duty on the one whose right is violated; it places the
>>>>>>>>> duty on a) the one appointing and b) recruiting to follow the Act. It puts
>>>>>>>>> no duty on the appointee or recruit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The law creates a right for the appointee and recruit. The right
>>>>>>>>> of either gender to a minimum of 40%, leaving the appointee to deal with
>>>>>>>>> gender issues differently but not without derogation from the right with
>>>>>>>>> the 20%.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The correct formulation is F/M/FM
>>>>>>>>> 40/40/20. So that if there is a chance for 50/50 and the appointer
>>>>>>>>> and the recruiter, would be wrong to resort to 40/40/20. Where, therefore,
>>>>>>>>> there are all women left, after the 40/40, the recruiter or appointee must
>>>>>>>>> get the 20% from the female. Tge same applies to when male constitute the
>>>>>>>>> last 20%.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> THIS IS BRILLIANT LEGISLATION
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 02:20 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Inu a Judge,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are always people who get wronged and never open cases in
>>>>>>>>>> court for various reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The appointment of people took a long time and NGOs even
>>>>>>>>>> complained. Any woman who was interested could have approached any of the 9
>>>>>>>>>> Tonse Alliance parties. They could have approached the 13 presidential
>>>>>>>>>> advisors. Could have approached any of the NGOs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No one can complain that you never considered their case if it
>>>>>>>>>> didn't come to court. You even meet people who lose their jobs, houses etc
>>>>>>>>>> in the street or in church. You can't give them judgement until their case
>>>>>>>>>> is in court.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are making too many assumptions on this matter. Most prominent
>>>>>>>>>> women have secure jobs which preclude them from taking other
>>>>>>>>>> responsibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 23:35 Dunstain Mwaungulu, <
>>>>>>>>>> dfmwaungulu at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think we are having to blame everything to avoid simple steps
>>>>>>>>>>> we have to take. Thee are women there to fill 65 boards. 50%! Something
>>>>>>>>>>> just got very wrong! It cannot be that the University of Malwi has produced
>>>>>>>>>>> less than 300 women graduates in the past 10 years! You are kidding me?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 20:29 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A different perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Botswana has always had co-education. Whether boarding or day
>>>>>>>>>>>> schools. No seperate boys and girls schools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Women hold very high positions as PSs, Directors, principals
>>>>>>>>>>>> and deputy principals of tertiary institutions. They own big companies and
>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> By the 80s women were already admitted to any programme at
>>>>>>>>>>>> tertiary institutions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Co-education at all levels without exception was normal. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>> weird to Nyasa people who grew up knowing girls and boys could not go to
>>>>>>>>>>>> same boarding secondary schools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know if there was a boarding secondary school in Malawi
>>>>>>>>>>>> where cooks were women. It has always been normal in Botswana with women
>>>>>>>>>>>> cooks, chefs, taxi and combi drivers, drivers of huge 100 ton mine trucks
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The point is, our system creates gender inequality right from
>>>>>>>>>>>> young age. Combine that with decades of women being told what to wear and
>>>>>>>>>>>> not wear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know of any African country where women dancing for
>>>>>>>>>>>> president was institutionalised like Malawi. Yes we popularised osunga
>>>>>>>>>>>> mwambo and it is the very same phrase which is propagating inequality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The best way as it were is to start with both boy and girl
>>>>>>>>>>>> child. Let them grow up together so that they can learn from early age how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to treat each other with respect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tisamaone azimai ngati mitchini yopanga ana.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 14:29 Keyboard Boyd Kilembey, <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kkilembe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have the same experience. A grace chavula. She was very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bright. She went to Lilongwe Girls. I went to Mitundu night. Next I hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she was at Poly doing secretarial studies while I went to chanco doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> general degree ya mabwana. I still think she should have been a PS or vice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chancellor of Unima. Some study indeed needs to be undertaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 11:16 KPD, <maluwakpd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As much as I support the concept of equality and protection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of women empowerment, the only Act of parliament I have seen is on GBV. On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boards it is only Environment management Board that there is a stipulation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on board composition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want to create CIVSOC forum board, can women here raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their hand so that I I include them. If the board comprise KBK,TC, LN, SK,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LN, CWG, some women somewhere will demonstrate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zinthu za maquota maybe politically correct but it is up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us as individuals to stand up and be counted. Not because of our noise but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our worth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inu azimai, don't normalise kumamenyedwa mapama. Don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normalise kumaumilizidwa kukhala house wife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alice Namathanga, I don't know where she is, competed with me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for position 1 in standard 7 at C.I in Blantyre. Next time ndinamva kuti ku
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary school sanapite or she got married. I felt like crying. Why do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our girls drop by the way side?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need some sort of conference, commission of inquiry or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever to look and hardships faced by women from girl child to adult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will allow for appropriate intervention.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Osangoti tizingopanga phokoso without dealing with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> underlying issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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