[Civsoc-mw] [BwalolaAphunzitsi] Re: [HigherEdMalawi] ‘That we be free from fear’: Thoughts on education and Malawi at 54

Thu Jul 12 20:44:33 CAT 2018

You misread me. I meant to say the student doesn't have to be escorted by a
professor. The birth attendants , midwives or medical assistants çan
supervise the students during delivery. The other subjects really you just
need a lecturer theatre which can take 1000 students at a go. Graduating 90
doctors out of a staff teaching faculty of 140 in a population increasing
by 900000 a year  is fleecing the tax payer. Those manning the system
should be ashamed of themselves. They should also use technology. I hear
CoM has some of the best technology equipment in the country. Why not use
the technology effectively? I also know of doctors who were weeded by CoM,
went to other countries such as China or Germany and excelled. There is
something fishy going on at CoM.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 16:43 Louis Nthenda, <louisnthenda at gmail.com> wrote:

> When all is said and done, I do not understand KBL's argument.
> I take it that the student who accompanies the teacher on hopsital grounds
> has also to take lessons in medical ethics, epidemiology, and public
> health. KBL makes it as if they don't. KBL also seems to suggest that the
> use of birth attendants and medical attendants mean that MBBS students
> don't have to learn obstetrics and gynecology.
> To make a long story short, the bottleneck IS the critical determinant.
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Adamson S. Muula <amuula at medcol.mw>
> wrote:
>
>> KK,
>>
>> I would be arrogant and untruthful if I am not able to admit that more
>> could be done to increase intake and output in public universities and
>> colleges including the College of Medicine. The explanations that I shared
>> notwithstanding.
>>
>> adamson
>>
>> On 10 July 2018 at 08:52, Keyboard Boyd Kilembey <kkilembe at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You have identified one bottleneck and using that to justify graduating
>>> 90 doctors in a population growing by 900000 a year thereby injuring the
>>> Jajis sense of equity and natural justice. The same can not be said about
>>> other subjects like epidemiology, medical ethics, or public health. What is
>>> thsstem doing about the bottleneck? What is the use of birth attendants or
>>> medical assistants? Is this how other medical schools do their processes?
>>> What about  use of technology, simulations, blackboard, noodle etc. I
>>> believe CoM can do more than graduation 90 doctors a hear.  This is like
>>> using a hoe on a 90000 acre farm. Waste of effort.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018, 08:17 Adamson S. Muula, <amuula at medcol.mw> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You may be right, but I believe you would not have said that had I
>>>> clarified. My apologies. Medical teaching in the clinical years takes place
>>>> on a one (student) on one (teacher) or one in three basis. If I am on the
>>>> ward round with students, I do not take 40 students at a time to see  a
>>>> patient. I take two, three or may be four.
>>>>
>>>> If I am teaching students through them observing me how to deliver a
>>>> baby and later I have to observe them to deliver a baby, this can be a 9
>>>> hour stint with one or two students and one or two mothers!
>>>>
>>>> KK, Do you still have the  same feeling on our business model?
>>>>
>>>> adamson
>>>>
>>>> On 9 July 2018 at 23:56, Keyboard Boyd Kilembey <kkilembe at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In 10 years you would just churn out 900 doctors. With a teaching
>>>>> faculty of 140, you should be graduating about 1400 doctors per year. Once
>>>>> again what are teaching hours per week? Something is awfully wrong with the
>>>>> CoM business model
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018, 21:00 Adamson S. Muula, <amuula at medcol.mw> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Glad you asked. Teaching faculty is 140.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graduates: about 90 medical doctors each year
>>>>>> 30 Medical lab
>>>>>> 30 physiotherapy
>>>>>> 30 Pharmacy
>>>>>> 30 Health Services Management
>>>>>> 25 BScs for clinical officers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And several postgraduates. How many students can join a surgeon at
>>>>>> one time in the theatres? Two may be three but not five (too much).
>>>>>> All the students must do a research project in the penultimate year/
>>>>>> lecturers needed
>>>>>> Lectures must do administration/ consultancies/research/get
>>>>>> sick/attend funerals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The number of staff is therefore not that huge
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 July 2018 at 17:41, Keyboard Boyd Kilembey <kkilembe at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I always think Colege of Medicine has too much infrastructure and
>>>>>>> support staff compared to the number of graduates per year. How many
>>>>>>> doctors do you graduate per year? 10?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018, 17:11 Adamson S. Muula, <amuula at medcol.mw>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr Nthenda,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the College of Medicine can have more teachers/lecturers and
>>>>>>>> infrastructure, we can increase intake even within the UNIMA. This may be
>>>>>>>> the case with the other public universities. We can however not expand
>>>>>>>> beyond a certain level. My count last time was that the country has less
>>>>>>>> than five human anatomists meaning that all the classrooms that we can have
>>>>>>>> will not matter if we have to teach people anatomy. We can fall for second
>>>>>>>> rate which we have done often. Breaking up universities need to happen
>>>>>>>> sometimes, but for good reasons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are in recess now and virtually no undergraduate classes (only
>>>>>>>> workshops) are happening. I know faculty also needs to rest- but we may be
>>>>>>>> overdoing it. We could have a summer semester may be to increase intake and
>>>>>>>> graduation rates.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9 July 2018 at 12:00, Louis Nthenda <louisnthenda at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's fascinating, Prof.
>>>>>>>>> Can you share with us your observations?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 2:52 PM Adamson S. Muula <amuula at medcol.mw>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just came back yesterday from a visit to the University of
>>>>>>>>>> Ibadan and University of Benin in Nigeria! Massive enterprises.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 July 2018 at 01:01, Louis Nthenda <louisnthenda at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To some of us, Prof, increases in enrollment is a better
>>>>>>>>>>> solution in terms of the economies of scale, -  capital costs, running
>>>>>>>>>>> costs, etc. It Isn't as if the current universities are bursting at the
>>>>>>>>>>> seams with students. In 1970, I was on the staff of Ahmadu Bello University
>>>>>>>>>>> in Northern Nigeria, founded in 1962, roughly around the same time as
>>>>>>>>>>> UNIMA. ABU had a student intake of 426 in its year of opening. Today it's
>>>>>>>>>>> web site says it has an enrollment of 35,000 students. Would a new
>>>>>>>>>>> university in Malawi be a better solution than using the resources to
>>>>>>>>>>> double or treble Unima's intake and double or treble the enrollments at
>>>>>>>>>>> each of the other 3 public universities?  Send some academic administrators
>>>>>>>>>>> to observe how in Africa some universities can manage such huge student
>>>>>>>>>>> numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 7:09 AM Adamson S. Muula <
>>>>>>>>>>> amuula at medcol.mw> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would having more students per university rather than more
>>>>>>>>>>>> universities be acceptable also? Because this can also be done without
>>>>>>>>>>>> increasing the number of the existing ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> adamson
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 July 2018 at 03:56, 'Doreen Myrie' via Bwalo la Aphunzitsi
>>>>>>>>>>>> <bwalo-la-aphunzitsi at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's just me. I've been gone a long time. It seems we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need more than the 4 public universities we currently have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 9:45 PM, Billy Gama
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gamabilly34 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much Doc for this important information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, 03:17 Steve Sharra, <stevesharra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Friday, July 06, 2018
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://mlauzi.blogspot.com/2018/07/that-we-be-free-from-fear-thoughts-on.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6th July 1964, fifty-four years ago, there were four
>>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools in Malawi, and not a single university. There was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blantyre
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Secondary School, Zomba Catholic Secondary School, Dedza
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Secondary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> School, and Mzuzu Government Secondary School. There were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> close to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 360,000 primary school learners, and the country had between 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>> million people. That year, 6,000 Malawians entered secondary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> school to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start Form 1. The University of Malawi was opened exactly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> three months
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after independence, on 6th October 1964. Its first intake was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 180
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students (other sources put the figure at 90).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fifty-four years later, there are over 1,400 secondary schools
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malawi and just over 380,000 secondary school students. About
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students enter Form 1 each year. There are four public
>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with about 20,000 students. The University of Malawi alone has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students. There are more than 28 private universities,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what can be estimated to be close to 20,000 students, although
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> real number could be less or more than this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://mlauzi.blogspot.com/2018/07/that-we-be-free-from-fear-thoughts-on.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://mlauzi.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: @stevesharra
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesharra
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adamson S. Muula PhD, MPH, MBBS, CPH, PGDip (Public Health
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ethics), PGDip (Global Health), PGD (Palliative Care)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health
>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Malawi, College of Medicine
>>>>>>>>>>>> School of Public Health and Family Medicine
>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Public Health
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chimutu Building Room 850
>>>>>>>>>>>> Private Bag 360, Chichiri
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blantyre 3
>>>>>>>>>>>> Malawi
>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: amuula at medcol.mw
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cell: +265 884233486
>>>>>>>>>>>> Skype address: adamson.sinjanimuula
>>>>>>>>>>>> Publications list:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Muula
>>>>>>>>>>>> *orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773>*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Webpage:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://biostat.maths.cc.ac.mw/people/staff/Adamson_S._Muula
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Adamson S. Muula PhD, MPH, MBBS, CPH, PGDip (Public Health
>>>>>>>>>> Ethics), PGDip (Global Health), PGD (Palliative Care)
>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health
>>>>>>>>>> University of Malawi, College of Medicine
>>>>>>>>>> School of Public Health and Family Medicine
>>>>>>>>>> Department of Public Health
>>>>>>>>>> Chimutu Building Room 850
>>>>>>>>>> Private Bag 360, Chichiri
>>>>>>>>>> Blantyre 3
>>>>>>>>>> Malawi
>>>>>>>>>> Email: amuula at medcol.mw
>>>>>>>>>> Cell: +265 884233486
>>>>>>>>>> Skype address: adamson.sinjanimuula
>>>>>>>>>> Publications list:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Muula
>>>>>>>>>> *orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773
>>>>>>>>>> <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773>*
>>>>>>>>>> Webpage:
>>>>>>>>>> http://biostat.maths.cc.ac.mw/people/staff/Adamson_S._Muula
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Adamson S. Muula PhD, MPH, MBBS, CPH, PGDip (Public Health Ethics),
>>>>>>>> PGDip (Global Health), PGD (Palliative Care)
>>>>>>>> Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health
>>>>>>>> University of Malawi, College of Medicine
>>>>>>>> School of Public Health and Family Medicine
>>>>>>>> Department of Public Health
>>>>>>>> Chimutu Building Room 850
>>>>>>>> Private Bag 360, Chichiri
>>>>>>>> Blantyre 3
>>>>>>>> Malawi
>>>>>>>> Email: amuula at medcol.mw
>>>>>>>> Cell: +265 884233486
>>>>>>>> Skype address: adamson.sinjanimuula
>>>>>>>> Publications list: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Muula
>>>>>>>> *orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773
>>>>>>>> <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773>*
>>>>>>>> Webpage:
>>>>>>>> http://biostat.maths.cc.ac.mw/people/staff/Adamson_S._Muula
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Adamson S. Muula PhD, MPH, MBBS, CPH, PGDip (Public Health Ethics),
>>>>>> PGDip (Global Health), PGD (Palliative Care)
>>>>>> Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health
>>>>>> University of Malawi, College of Medicine
>>>>>> School of Public Health and Family Medicine
>>>>>> Department of Public Health
>>>>>> Chimutu Building Room 850
>>>>>> Private Bag 360, Chichiri
>>>>>> Blantyre 3
>>>>>> Malawi
>>>>>> Email: amuula at medcol.mw
>>>>>> Cell: +265 884233486
>>>>>> Skype address: adamson.sinjanimuula
>>>>>> Publications list: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Muula
>>>>>> *orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773 <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773>*
>>>>>> Webpage: http://biostat.maths.cc.ac.mw/people/staff/Adamson_S._Muula
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Adamson S. Muula PhD, MPH, MBBS, CPH, PGDip (Public Health Ethics),
>>>> PGDip (Global Health), PGD (Palliative Care)
>>>> Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health
>>>> University of Malawi, College of Medicine
>>>> School of Public Health and Family Medicine
>>>> Department of Public Health
>>>> Chimutu Building Room 850
>>>> Private Bag 360, Chichiri
>>>> Blantyre 3
>>>> Malawi
>>>> Email: amuula at medcol.mw
>>>> Cell: +265 884233486
>>>> Skype address: adamson.sinjanimuula
>>>> Publications list: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Muula
>>>> *orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773 <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773>*
>>>> Webpage: http://biostat.maths.cc.ac.mw/people/staff/Adamson_S._Muula
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adamson S. Muula PhD, MPH, MBBS, CPH, PGDip (Public Health Ethics), PGDip
>> (Global Health), PGD (Palliative Care)
>> Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health
>> University of Malawi, College of Medicine
>> School of Public Health and Family Medicine
>> Department of Public Health
>> Chimutu Building Room 850
>> Private Bag 360, Chichiri
>> Blantyre 3
>> Malawi
>> Email: amuula at medcol.mw
>> Cell: +265 884233486
>> Skype address: adamson.sinjanimuula
>> Publications list: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Muula
>> *orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773 <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4412-9773>*
>> Webpage: http://biostat.maths.cc.ac.mw/people/staff/Adamson_S._Muula
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Civsoc-mw mailing list
>> Civsoc-mw at sdnp.org.mw
>> http://chambo3.sdnp.org.mw/mailman/listinfo/civsoc-mw
>>
>>
>
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